Civic Engagement and the 2020 Census: Yes, It Matters for Your Org
Bertis Downs
Former Manager
R.E.M.
Dr. Jeanine Abrams McLean
Vice President
Fair Count
@JAbramsMcLean
Rebecca DeHart
Chief Executive Officer
Fair Count
@RebeccaDeHart
No matter the issue your organization works on, chances are, the Census affects it, as it will direct $1.5 trillion annually to communities across the nation through federal programs that impact education, healthcare, infrastructure, disaster recovery, and more.
In this session, Rebecca, Jeanine, and Bertis will discuss the issues that threaten a fair and accurate count in the 2020 Census, why creativity plays such a large role in civic engagement, and the role of arts and culture in social change.
Below, watch the video, listen to the podcast, or read the transcript.
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Transcript
Thank you for joining us from wherever you are. Normally I would reach out to say hello and offer a hug. We have to do that from a distance this year. ComNetworkV begins in five minutes.
Hey, everyone, it’s Sean from The Communications Network. ComV will begin shortly. ComNetworkV is about to begin.
[Music]
Hey, everyone, Sean, welcome back to my basement the final day we’ll together live. Everything we’ve done together, as I hope you will know, will be available on this platform where you see me. A lot of it is. So if in the next hour or two, I hope you can stick around for what we have ahead. In between, if you want to catch up on stuff or come back to it over the weekend, we invite you to. Everything up here live, we’re on tape, I guess. And we will eventually make everything, everything is going to be up on YouTube so anybody and everybody can avail themselves of it. Give us a couple weeks to make that happen, but that’s our plan.
I’m grateful and excited to bring y’all back. It would be a mistake for me to ignore what’s been happening while I’ve been in my basement. What’s been happening in our country this week. It’s a lot. I hope you seen the email sent to you. One thing I take comfort in is, this group is together and seeing what we’re seeing and feeling what we’re feeling.
I was saying to the equity panel, If you can see it, and you can name it, then you can change it. And I was reminded yesterday in a conversation I had, I can’t remember if it was before or after that conversation with Stacey. Dr. Jones and I were having a chat. I was reflecting on all that’s happening around the world and my deep distress I think everybody probably shares about the ruling or lack of justice for Breonna Taylor and her family, which is hard to understand. He remind me of the words of Dr. King: “If not us, who? And if not now, when?”
You’re in for an extraordinary series of conversations today. Your eyes will be watching the conversation. Good news I can share is overnight, there was a judge ruling that the United States census will continue. And the challenge here is, I’m not an expert of the courts; some of you might be, but you know it’s an initial ruling and will probably be a fight moving up. Right now, it looks like the United States census will proceed through at least the end of October, which is good news because we don’t want to leave anybody behind. We talk to Trabian, who we aspire to be, and we don’t want anyone left behind.
The conversation about equity, I have a feeling will be tougher, but there’s lessons to learn from our friends in Atlanta. Later today, you’ll have Susan, whose story is just extraordinary. She’s a woman who lives in the southeastern part of Tennessee. I’m a Virginian by birth so I know the area she works in. She’s done extraordinary work. I was talking to my wife and she’s like, we’re talking about that now? She won the Clarence B. Jones Impact Award and forged conversation and built bridges on subjects around women’s health considered taboo. If you’re interested, I recommend making time for that.
And we’ll close out the day with Joy, she’s a citizen of the Creek Muscogee nation and will have a conversation with Rebecca, and I would like you to indulge me with a piece from Joy. It’s quick. I saw somebody on Twitter complaining, but listen, take a breath. This is good for you.
We stand first in our minds, and then we toddle From hand to furniture Soon we are walking away from the house and lands Of our ancestral creator gods To the circles of friends, of schooling, of work Making families and worlds of our own. We make our way through storm and sun We walk side by side or against each other The last road will be taken alone — There might be crowds calling for blood Or a curtained window by the leaving bed It is best not to be afraid Lift your attention For the appearance of the next road It might be through a family of trees, a desert, or On rolling waves of sea It’s the ancient road the soul knows We always remember it when we see it It beckons at birth It carries us home. With that let’s go. [Music]
Good morning. Welcome to ComNet’s first and maybe the only virtual festival. It’s good to be here with you today at the end of September. We’re virtually recording this early in September. So roughly three weeks from now, projecting ahead, are some of the issues we’ll talk about. You’ll see in just a minute why the last day of September is an important one for the purpose of this conversation.
I’m joined today in conversation by the two leaders of Fair Count, Jeanine Abrams McLean and Rebecca DeHart. I would like you to tell us about Fair Count, its mission, history, and what you’re doing. So whoever wants to start.
Rebecca:
Thank you so much. We’re excited to be here on this conference virtually. And we’re really thrilled to be in conversation with you as well. All of us have such a great history with the State of Georgia and what we’re doing with civic engagement, and your history with the culture of Georgia and how you combine those two is just fascinating.
We’re really happy to be in conversation with old friends and also sharing our story with new friends today. I’m Rebecca, the CEO of Fair Count. Jeanine and I started back in 2014. I’ll let you tell the story of how it came about because it’s interesting. We work to ensure a fair and accurate count of the 2020 census in Georgia and around the nation. We are anchored in Georgia. Our work is in many states. We have organizers in many states and have probably done an effort in almost all of them now.
We really look at the census as the bedrock of democracy, the foundational piece. And we’ll talk about this today, about what’s at stake if we don’t have a fair and accurate census. But we also look at the census as a catalyst to bring people into civic engagement and build long-term infrastructure between the census, restructuring, and voting — and keeping historically marginalized communities at the center of this conversation to really get more participation and have a more fair and equitable seat at the table.
Jeanine:
I want to echo what Rebecca said. It’s great to be here talking to you and all of the folks that are viewing this. Fair Count was founded by Stacey Abrams, who is my second oldest sister. You may know who she is. And after — when she ran for governor of Georgia, after the election, she spent a lot of time thinking about what she could be doing to help the State of Georgia even though she didn’t have the title.
And, of course, one of the first things that came up was voter suppression, so she started the organization Fair Fight. As we were talking and spending time together, she started talking about the census and why the census was so important. Because when she was a state legislator, her hands were tied to fight gerrymandering that was happening in the state because the census wasn’t complete. And she didn’t have the data to back up and to challenge the maps that were being drawn.
So my background: I was formally at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I’m a scientist, so I’ve done population research-based science for a long time. She asked me, if you had to count everybody in Georgia, how would you do it? I’m an amazing scientist and I was like, I don’t know. I have no idea. I’ll do what I do best: do some research. And came back with a few ideas, and she said, we need to start Fair Count, and brought on Rebecca to head this effort. And here we are a year and a half later, doing the good fight for democracy.
So two follow-ups to that. She — you’re talking about earlier in her career, after the 2010 census, when she was helpless, her hands were tied because the census wasn’t complete. What does that mean when a census isn’t complete? The second thing to highlight is, how did they know about Rebecca to bring her in? Tell us about Rebecca’s background for those that don’t know it.
I’ll start with the incomplete census. In Georgia, we know that the 2010 census counted 72 percent of Georgia households. With a population the size of Georgia, you’re talking about a lot of people. Roughly 30 percent of folks weren’t counted. That undercount was seen across the nation, especially in groups — there are groups the Census Bureau refers to as hard to count. We don’t like that term because it implies there’s something wrong with these populations, including populations of racial and ethnic minorities, young children, the LGBTQ community, homeless persons, undocumented persons. We know there’s nothing wrong with these groups, but the systems in place to count them are inadequate. That’s why we’re doing the work we are doing today. We know in Georgia and across the country, white homeowners were overcounted and all those people or more of the groups I mentioned were undercounted. That’s something we’re trying to stave off this time around.
Pivoting to the second part of the question, Rebecca — and she can tell you more about her work. But when Stacey introduced me to Rebecca, the idea was, Jeanine, you do the data and Rebecca knows the state. She’s a former executive director of the Democratic Party in Georgia and led the coordinated the campaign in 2018. And she thinks about how all these things are tied together in the ways that we can really engage people and mobilize people. I’m talking like she’s not here.
I know. [Laughing]. I’m going to let Rebecca tell more about her background. Thank you, it’s OK. Keep going [laughing]. That was a good introduction.
It was a great introduction. I’m blushing on camera. I’ve known Stacey when she ran for office and back then was working with other political organizations. I’ve been working in public policy as well as electoral policy to see long-term change get made. I was ready to take a break from electoral politics. I was one of the longest-serving executive directors for the state in the party and it was time for me to move on. I was thrilled when Stacey asked me to become head of this organization. and it’s by far the most fulfilling work I’ve been able to do to date. Jeanine and I are two of our 37-member team, with folks spread over eight states now.
In my career history and as a person, I say I’ve been a super huge REM fan for a long time, so I think everybody would like to know about your background, too.
I’ve been a big REM fan, too, including now. I had a good opportunity to represent those guys, sort of early days of law school, learning the ropes growing up with them from literally being a fan and friend and somebody who knew something about the music industry and willing to learn more and help them run their business for a long time until they broke up. This was the time nine years ago in September, they decided they did it long enough. Great career, body of work, and something to be proud of, the legacy.
In a lot of ways, they’re close. It was a very good decision for them as individuals and a group to not keep going. Their songs really mean something to people. A lot of their stuff is timely. They’re still engaged as individuals. And it’s been a great career for me and it’s kept me in a college town in Athens, Georgia. Which is a good thing, which is not 365 days a year, which is fun, too.
We’ll keep talking, we have a while here. But I learned something already, which is doesn’t surprise me when I heard Jeanine say that roughly 30 percent of the population in Georgia wasn’t counted last time. I don’t know how you got to that number, but I assume there are ways you found that out. It doesn’t shock me at all. It’s terrible, it disappoints me and it’s sad, but it does surprise me people got counted twice, especially white homeowners got counted twice. How did they pull that off? How did that somehow happen?
And the other thing tactically I would ask, is what can you do as an outside group, a nonpartisan, C3 nonadvocacy group in terms of partisan politics? But how do you as outsiders, not in an official role, keep them more honest, would be a good way of putting it — at least on their toes?
Explain the dynamics. How did people get counted twice and others not counted at all? And what are you doing in 2020 as part of Fair Count to make sure it doesn’t happen again?
I can take the first part. People may be able to hear. My cat is in the background and he’s super excited about this conversation. He keeps meowing. The way people are overcounted, say you have multiple homes and count your family at all of those homes. You’re only supposed to count yourself at the home you spend the majority of your time in.
If you have vacation homes and count the entire family, that’s one way, in both homes, you get double counted.
Does that mean the person has to affirmatively commit fraud? If you have a home in North Georgia and a home in South Georgia, do you say count me both places or does it happen passively?
I don’t think it’s malicious. I do think that it happens that people do — they’re like, let me do the census at all these homes. The purpose of the census is to count every person, one time and in the right place, not one time in all the places that I frequent. And so it’s really getting that message to people that they shouldn’t be counting themselves at multiple homes.
Another way people are overcounted are college students. And this is an issue in the middle of a pandemic. But college students can be counted at the college and then at their parents’ homes, so that’s another way you get double counting. The Census Bureau does have mechanisms in place to de-duplicate, but they’re not as effective as they should be. And that’s one of the worries of the rush. The census is being rushed to end early, and some of the checks and balances to de-duplicate are rushed through and possibly not being applied. So there’s a fear there may be another massive overcount of certain groups. Go ahead, Rebecca.
If I can jump on for a second about that. I think you hit the nail on the head with it. We’re not talking about nefarious acts that make the overcount happen. But what we’re seeing has put a microscope on what systemic inequities look like in practice. The census is an idea: if we mail something to a household, they’ll return it.
Yes, they may have more than one household and they get a second one and think, “They didn’t get it,” and do it again, or the parents are split and parents answer for their kids and they’re at college. There’s a reason why the de-duplication can take place. But the premise is based on the fact that in America, families are stagnant homeowners who can receive mail over time and correspond with the government.
And that’s sort of problem number one, because a large majority of people in America don’t communicate that way. They’re renters. They live in weekly hotels. They’re experiencing homelessness. They are moving place to place. There’s a large segment of America, roughly 5 percent, that don’t even get their mail through the USPS. And the Census Bureau never mails them the form. That’s how we see the inequities, because we have a system set up to capture information one way. But it’s not the way the majority of America can share the information. That’s where Fair Count steps in and brings a stepping stool to the communities that aren’t able to communicate in the way the government is doing it. Not because there’s anything wrong with them, but because the government hasn’t created a more sophisticated method to do so.
This year, the census was online for the first time. There were packets of it in 2010 but they really pushed online. And for a large number of people, it was great. People went online, got done with their census. But it was great if you have — I have, what is it? Apple fiber or whatever. Or you have broadband or whatever or unlimited data plan. It’s comfortable for you to go on your phone and surf the internet and take a survey quickly.
There’s a large number of Americans who do not have broad band internet in their counties yet because it’s rural. Or maybe they don’t have an unlimited data plan and have to be careful with what they use that phone for. Maybe dial-up is going on and it doesn’t work well. There’s a large portion of people in America that sometimes get left out of the equation, and that’s what we’re really interested in. We’re interested in these communities because they haven’t been historically marginalized in the census for decade after decade, but tend to be the same communities that more likely than not have voter suppression, have more polling precincts closed down. Have their communities sliced and diced in the redistricts and don’t have a voice representing them, from the local school board to Congress.
There’s an idea that if we build more resources and build more infrastructure with the communities that were left out of the story of America for so long, we’ll have a better, more vibrant America with a democracy that’s responsive to all instead of just some.
That helps me understand it. You’re filling the gap between people and communities that historically have been passed over. Maybe it’s not on purpose. Maybe it’s sort of, kind of not a priority. But y’all are out there on the street level with the technology and with the know-how to make sure people get counted.
That’s right.
The other thing I learned earlier today when we were talking before the call, I didn’t realize you were doing voter registration as well. On a nonpartisan basis — you’re not working for a party or on behalf of any particular candidate. But y’all are using this work — so that’s some of the dovetail you have with your organization. It’s one of those things, those groups two years ago didn’t exist, or maybe Fair Fight existed two years ago, but Fair Count, those are new. And now everybody knows what Fair Fight does and what Fair Count does, but in any case, y’all have some crossover in terms of getting people not only in the count for the census process but the voting process or voter engagement process.
A little bit. We don’t engage much with registration. There’s a lot of laws in Georgia that govern registration, and there’s a long history by secretaries of state for getting thrown in jail for trying to help register to vote. There’s a great organization called the New Georgia Project registering hundreds of thousands of people a year, so we’re excited about that. Fair Fight is a C4 and for folks who are familiar, C4 is more of a partisan organization. They have a PAC. We can’t coordinate with them at all on election, and we don’t. We’re a nonprofit C3 organization, but we do do voter education work, and that’s so important.
If voting were easy in Georgia, we wouldn’t make the headlines and talk show circuits every time we had an election. There are so many disparities, nefarious efforts, and we work to help on that side with also educational efforts.
To tie everything back together, go to our origin story and Stacey’s hands tied during the redistricting process. We consider the census, voting, and redistricting as three pillars of democracy. If we want it to live, we know it’s in danger. If we want it to thrive in the future, we have to make sure we cover all three of these aspects. The census — so people know there’s an annual census that’s done, it’s called the American Communities Survey and it only targets a few million households in the United States. But it’s done every year and you might have heard it as the long form.
But when you think about the census, the basis for the community survey, it only happens once every 10 years. If the census is faulty or falters and if it’s trash, we can’t use the data. And that impacts our ability, our power when we — our ability to redraw redistricting lines that distribute the power of our vote. While they’re all important, the census is the bedrock also. If we don’t get it right, everything else over the next decade is going to be impacted in a negative way.
That’s for resources, too. You’re a public school advocate out there fighting for public education. All three of us are parents and have experience with a public school, although the public school happens on this desk behind me now for first grade. Our schools are reliant on the census. When communities don’t answer the census, that’s how you get overcrowded classrooms, because they don’t count for enough and draw school boundaries differently. A variety of programs go through the public schools. When you have communities, historically undercounted communities that don’t answer the census, then their schools suffer, their hospitals suffer, their roads suffer, which is why the town just on the other side that has a much higher census performance, their hospitals are more equipped. Their schools are better. The roads they drive on can handle the thrust of their community.
It’s astounding — there’s basically not anything in American life, democracy, and infrastructure that the census does not touch.
Yeah, it’s just part of the overall puzzle and it’s, as you say, it’s a critical piece. If you don’t start with the right data, clearly needs will go unmet. For example, the classrooms or roads. Speaking of the September 30 deadline, the end of the third quarter, that does seem early for an annual census. I know that’s been a recent change, in the last few months, I guess. But tell us, what is the plan for Fair Count before, in the next five days after this conversation airs, this will be the 30th of September. and what’s your post–September 30 plan? Is it “That’s it, we’ve done what we can do” and go home? Or I suppose there’s a post–September 30 phase of your work. And what is unfolding? What are the mechanics of what you do with the actual census and the count we’re going to get.
I can start. Actually, the census was scheduled to end on July 31. Everything’s been crazy. But you know, we had a pandemic. And because of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Census Bureau and the administration said, Hey, let’s delay this until October 31. There’s no way we can get the numbers and the analyses done before October 31. So that was the plan.
Other advocacy organizations working on the census, they were trying to figure out how to scramble to get things done past July 31, and we were making plans and made plans going until July 31. And then on August 3, the Census Bureau did a complete 180. They said even though they said for months they didn’t have enough time, they said on August 3, actually, we’re going to go ahead and we’re going to finish the census with one of the highest — or lowest response rates going into — it’s called the nonresponse follow-up period, and that’s where the door knockers start.
They had the lowest self-response rates before the door knocking phase started. There were issues with hiring and still continue to be issues with hiring, and they said, Actually, we’re just going to get it done a month early which would be the shortest NRFU period in modern history, and in the middle of a pandemic that is not waning. So it’s been a shock for people. Shock for groups like us, how the heck did you plan on counting everyone? And we’re getting news now, the problems aren’t going away, they’re continuing to build.
I won’t get into all of that, but we’re in a fight right now to make sure that communities don’t get — that communities are accurately counted.
The last, I’ll throw a little data at you. At the end of July, when we go back to communities that are historically undercounted, we know that Black, Native American, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Asian were trailing over 10 percent behind in response rates than predominantly white communities. And this door knocking phase has been critical to get out the count in those hard-to-count communities. When the government Census Bureau says, Let’s cut it short by 30 days, you’re basically sentencing everybody to a bad census.
What we’re trying to do, and other groups across the country, we’re trying to mitigate all of this by, I don’t want to say something inappropriate, but we’re throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks and everything at the census, and that’s what we’ll be doing. And we’re fighting to try to get the administration to roll this back, to extend the deadline until October 31. Hopefully when this airs, the update will be the census has been extended until October 31, but we’re working under the assumption we have to end on September 30.
What would it take to be extended? Would it take an act of Congress or head of the Census Bureau?
It’s an act of Congress. And it’s interesting you say that. The head of the Census Bureau is like, we can get it done by September 30. And we should talk about why they want it done so fast, too. The head of the Census Bureau and Commerce Departments past have come out and said, Absolutely not. The American Statistical Society has come out and said this is basically a travesty. The side of politics and everything going on is losing our minds about this because it’s so consequential and being treated so cavalierly.
The big thing, we’re a nonpartisan, nonprofit, but the truth of the matter is politics exist in Washington and people are cutting deals all the time. The process of apportionment is a very choreographed process that happens at the end of every census. They were supposed to end in July and have five or six months to get data together. Around December 31 of every year, they come out and announce to the president of the United States and the people who live in America: This is our final count of how many people live in this nation. Because of this count we believe each state should get these numbers of congressional seats. The president takes possession of that, transmits it, and gives to Congress for redistricting.
The sitting president made clear he wants to take possession of that data because he’ll cull from that data whomever he thinks is an undocumented person. And that is why that executive order happened, again in August, saying we should not count undocumented persons. We are setting ourselves up for a constitutional crisis. There are lawsuits all over the place. There are injunctions that have been filed. Cases that are being streamlined to the United States Supreme Court now, but make no mistake, if the census went to the recommended deadline of October 31, this sitting president would not get his hands on that apportionment data unless he’s re-elected in November.
In this scenario, no matter who is elected in November, the current sitting president will be able to take possession of this apportionment data. So we can see how the census is the beginning of a cascading effect of dominos falling all over each other. Don’t get me started on what happens with age, population, voting data. We’re facing where folks want to overhaul how the democracy works, who it stands for and represents for the rest of time. And we’re at the point, we’re dealing with mechanisms that will allow that and whether or not they go through. We don’t split well [laughing].
A time when it fits into the theme of, who do you trust? Is it better to mail the ballot? Is it better to go out and brave the elements and wear a mask and vote in person? Is it better to vote early? There’s already this failure of people’s trust in institutions. The post office being a great example. I assume the post office situation is impacting the census as well. It’s impacting voting and regular mail and package delivery. I assume it’s impacting the census, too. Are there any silver linings here? I don’t think we’re supposed to bring everybody down the entire hour. There must be something we can do more than we normally do to stay engaged. I see why you don’t sleep well at night when you described that. It’s daunting to say the least.
To answer the question you asked before that we didn’t answer, which is where Fair Count is going. We’re at a variety of fronts in this nation. These last six months have been huge. It will be for generations and the repercussions that will come out of everything. Fair Count is really looking at what we can do to be part of long-term change, and that’s what gets to me sleep at night so I can get up knowing we have a plan going forward.
Jeanine is right, hopefully the census will go toward October 31. I hope that happens. If anyone watching this hasn’t gotten it done, they need to go to my2020census.gov and get it done today and share it with everyone they know. And we’ll follow up and do all the good stuff. We’ll give our staff one day off, and they’re coming back and getting onto the count and getting out the vote with the same communities historically left behind in the census. They are communities with higher rates of not being registered to vote and resources given by civic and electoral infrastructure to create education and things needed to get people energized and part of the process.
We’ll work with those communities and hope to energize and get more people involved in the election, and tie what an election looks like to their lives, and why the vote is an important franchise, and not miss a beat. And start thinking about redistricting the new ones. This isn’t where politicians redraw districts to keep working. But how do we make the people front and center so they’re able to choose districts based on communities of need and unity and things that bring folks together? — so when they have representation, they’re speaking in the voices of people they see and hear.
And we’ll continue on with census and American community survey work, too. We see this space to bring all aspects of that civic engagement together, and we know there’s a lot of work. What are the things that make us really happy? Doing this work has so many positive residual effects. One of my favorite stories: When we started Fair Count, we realized, how could people fill out their census online when they didn’t have access to the internet? We started creating internet installations all over Georgia. We didn’t create them in new places and make them come to us. We talked to barbershops where people hung out. The community centers, day care providers, where are places people feel safe and comfortable going and where can we provide? We bought a bunch of iPads, Chromebooks, hotspots and paid for the internet to continue in that community until December 31.
One of the best things about these is one, of course people have been doing their census, but we’ve been learning people have been registering to vote. Using the internet in their community to create or ask for vote-by-mail ballots so they didn’t have to wait in line. We held job fairs where people suffering from unemployment have been able to go out and get jobs. When the pandemic struck, we learned in south and middle Georgia where rural areas were getting hit by COVID before anyone had their arms around it, it was because of these devices [that] communities of faith were able to go online and keeps communities getting together in that time. We had a pastor that said 40 families would pull in front of their church so their kids could do their homework.
When we look at communities that have been left behind in the census, they have been cut out or had the franchise stolen from them in a variety of other aspects. Building resources and building power and hiring from within those communities and doing that sort of long-term deep-dive organizing is showing ripple effects in so many other aspects of life. Really, it’s powerful and humbling.
Wow. That is some — I would put that in the category of some encouraging news. Jeanine, you want to add?
The only thing I want to say is, I’m a scientist. Even though my sister was a politician, I was very not into — I paid attention, but I wasn’t engaged as much as I am today. And that’s what I see in other people, in that you talk to people that — it’s not sexy, guys. It’s not something people want to talk about every day. When you are — when you see folks that didn’t know the impact that this has had on their entire lives.
I was in New Orleans doing a workshop and there was a 54-year-old Black man who came to one our Black Men Count, that’s one of our initiatives, national initiatives. And after the presentation, he stood up and he said that he had never been counted in a census. He said he didn’t think his parents counted him when he was this his 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s, he didn’t count himself because he assumed other people were counting him. He just didn’t know that his entire life had been impacted and he was ready to go and get to work. That’s something, whenever I wake up and I’m feeling down, I think about the people who, the light bulb came on. And it’s not just for the census. That’s what we try to do, is tie all of this together. It’s not just for the census, it’s about voting. It’s about being involved in the redistricting process. It’s about being civically engaged, and that’s the stuff that makes me happy. It’s that I can see that light bulb go off in people’s brains. So, yeah, that’s my happy moment.
That’s neat. Well, it’s happened with me just in getting to talk to y’all as we set this thing up, and again today. Because everybody’s got so much information barraging at them every day, and how do you get their attention? How do you take something that’s really interesting to nerds and people really into politics, and inside baseball stuff, and get to the point it becomes an action item for people? People really care?
I want to focus something else a little on Georgia. I know you’re in different states that have offices, but your origin is in Georgia and focused on in Georgia, and we’re holding the conference virtually in Georgia. And that’s redistricting. You mentioned the data, the ability to excise, use the red pencil or whatever to get rid of the undocuments, which would be legally dubious and likely not to work, but sets up roadblocks and people have to go to court and uncertainty with that.
If it’s September 30 or October 31, and when the data get transmitted — depending who on wins — what happens at the state level? I saw last year one of the parties picked up a lot of seats, and if it happens again, at least as of the beginning of January, that party would be more in control. The way it works at the state level, whichever party is in control, controls redistricting, which Stacey was frustrated about early in her career in the state house. How will it work this year in terms of if the census isn’t finished, the data isn’t complete? Depending how the election swings, depending which house is in control, will there be a lame duck party in power that a couple weeks from now isn’t in power anymore, that could do some things? Is that something you’re playing out, the various scenarios for that, in our State of Georgia?
You want me to start, Jeanine? So, yes, to so many. The thing we’re worried about the most, which is happening, is something called — we all call it CVAP data. A few years back, there was a case in Texas that went to the Supreme Court called Evans Law. What that was, it was a woman who was an officer of the state Republican Party in Texas who filed suit and basically said, “It doesn’t seem fair, my representative, my state senator, state house, and everything, these districts are made up of people who can’t vote. They should only be made up of people who vote. And that’s always been the history of America.”
We try to get a sense of how many people are in an area. We count the whole persons — the 14th Amendment mentions that — and she wants to challenge that. One, being there’s a guy, [Thomas] Hofeller — if anyone wants to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole, take a look at what happened to him — he did research and found out if we excluded certain people, we could consider a white majority Republican Party for ages, and then he died.
[Overlapping Speakers]
Yeah, fascinating stuff. Definitely.
This case went to the Supreme Court and they said no. In Congress you have to count whole people, but not totally sure about state legislatures, and they left the door open. Since then, there’s been a lot of interest, and special interests trying to get states to move toward “citizen voting age population,” which means you have to be somebody who is legally able to vote and 18 years or older in order to be counted in redistricting — which would cut out children, undocumented folks, people on visas, et cetera. It would change the makeup primarily of areas where folks like that are more in number. So cities and metropolitan areas and everything, districts will have to grow, to expand in ways they had not had to before.
Georgia is going to be ground zero for this. Our state constitution is one of the only ones in the nation that does not say that we count all people. Just says we use census information. So they could go in the dead of the night when they do their report and switch us to CVAP without anyone knowing and have a conversation about. Texas is in the same boat. They’re going to try to do it in Missouri this year on the ballot, and we’re watching that closely, because it’s not about immigration. It’s not about who is documented, who is not. It’s about getting an idea of who lives in a certain area and what those needs are. Fifty percent of the people there are children and undocumented. And [if] they’re not counted, then how are we making decisions when a hurricane comes through and we have to come up with an evacuation plan and we only know there’s 50 percent of the people that are there? People are going to die. How do we fund schools, hospitals, et cetera? But that’s the road we’re going down and that’s the road where Fair Count is going to fight harder than we ever have before.
You’re not giving them any ideas, I’m sure. Is this something — conceivably, this is something that would happen post–November 3 but pre-inauguration of the new state house. They would only do it while they were lame ducks. Wow, that’s chilling stuff and doesn’t seem like the United States, what we think of as democracy. Wow.
It would change what we think of democracy and who matters, who counts, moving forward. And I wouldn’t be surprised if some states succeed in it. There are a lot of organizations that this is their number one thing, is to get states ready to do this for partisan gain now but to the detriment of democracy and everyone later.
Wow. That’s pretty sobering. That’s an angle of this — I’ve learned a lot [from] this whole conversation. That’s one I had not realized. I assumed there may be something like that, but to hear it explained that’s how it happened and the way the Supreme Court left that door open, that’s pretty chilling.
So what else do y’all want to tell us about census, about the upcoming week before the census closes — unless there’s a breakthrough and it’s extended through the 31st? Anything else in the good of the order or questions for me? I think we have a few minutes and we’re supposed to wrap up.
One thing I’m talking to you about and so important, and seeing this play out, not just civic engagement but all the issues everywhere that we’re working on, is this intersection of art, politics, and civic engagement and statement making. And we’ve seen so much this summer, whether it’s Black Lives Matter on the street or new murals that go up or songs that are written — maybe we should all be singing “It’s the End of the World as We Know It.” How do you reconcile — and do you think art can see us through this?
Artists are at the forefront and have a way of expressing things maybe ahead of their time. Certainly, if it’s good art and it gets through and it gets out there, it’s something people pay attention to and care about and people identify with. That’s their band or their artist or their book. It’s a way, I think — it’s one of the things that’s hard to explain. It’s just a fact that over time, artists have often — cultural change has often presaged political change and been part of these movements.
And that’s my best explanation for it. I’m sure there are people who have written good PhD dissertations and books about it. The music I’ve been associated with, rock music in particular — these days all the musicians have a platform and followers on social media, and can point people in the right direction. People are overwhelmed and feeling lack of trust. They have their own institutions and credibility, and people care what they think. So that’s a powerful medium.
Jeanine, you’ve been doing a lot of work with Black Theatre United, haven’t you?
Fun fact about me: In addition to biology, I also minored in theatre when I was in college. And some of the courses I took, it’s called the art of transformation. And there was a lot of work on, how do we use theatre to advance some of these — political or civic engagement, or what is going on in the world — how do we use art to address these issues?
I think that what you were saying, when you have the creativity, I think a lot of times people think about — when you think about civic engagement and politics, you think of how do we strategy and data and all of these things. But how do you tie all that together with creative outlets, whether that be through music, theatre, through writing? How do we communicate these messages to people in ways they will pay attention and listen and then engage?
And so just like you said, I think there are a lot of creative minds out there. Rebecca mentioned we have been working with Black Theatre United. So Broadway has been shut down because of the pandemic, so this organization was founded in the midst of all of this because they were like, We have to do something.
And one of the collaborations that we did was with Billy Porter and Misty Copeland. Audra McDonald, one of the founding members, got this organized. We had the There’s Only One Me campaign, where Billy Porter got out there and talked about how he was unique and why people need to be counted. There’s music and people playing in the background, and Misty Copeland spoke to me — I didn’t know we were the same age. Black women born in ’82 and that’s me and I’m an athlete and this and that and dancing and Twittering, and we didn’t do message testing on this, but it was so powerful — people looking at themselves and being like, yeah, there’s millions of Black women that are born in 1982, but there’s only one Jeanine that’s a scientist and loves theatre and wishes in another dimension she was a Broadway star. Those are the things that really reach people. And you can’t get that through strategy. You can’t get that through analyzing data. You can only get that through creativity, and that’s where I think art of all forms is needed, and impactful.
Totally agree. I didn’t know about that, but I can see, every Misty Copeland or Billy Porter fan in the world knows about it. I know who they are, but I’m not on their list and seeing their feed. It’s impactful when artists speak from their heart, and it can’t be message tested and “Let’s hit the right marks.” It just has to flow. I feel like in this world with everything flowing and all the different niches, art can be a powerful tool and something that helps turn public opinion.
With under a week to go until evidently the end of the census counting, this has been really inspirational for me to talk to you and hear about what you’re doing and the way Fair Count is approaching this. You said you’ll be busy after the second. You’ll take that day off and be back at work, and plenty of work to do moving forward.
Any final thoughts about any of this? It’s been — I really enjoyed talking to y’all, and look forward to hearing as the month unfolds, and then as the fall unfolds, democracy in action. Jeanine, Rebecca.
Thank you for taking the time to talk to us. I really enjoyed this conversation. The one thing I say, five days out, right? So this is where everybody watching this comes into play. We’ve had text banks and all kinds of things going up to this date, but in the next five days, you can do your own outreach. You can get on social media and share, we have five days until the census ends. You can text everybody in your phone about this. If you’re driving around town, you can get something, car marker stuff and write on there, don’t forget to take your census.
There are things that people can do and we really need to — we had an event with another artist. It was with Audra McDonald and Phylicia Rashad. One of the things Phylicia said was, we have to get outside, not necessarily our bubbles, but people have different life trajectories and different stories and histories. We have to get outside of our comfort zone and talk to people we might not normally talk to and encourage them to tell other people.
I’ll say this one story. We were getting ready to go somewhere and I had a flat tire. My husband was putting air in my tire, and this really — this car pulled up with these two guys in it. And they were — he was putting in the air in the tire, and I had a Fair Count sign, the magnet on the side of my car. So one of them says, What’s Fair Count? My husband says, Oh, we don’t know these dudes. They just pulled up beside us.
I was like, This is a nonprofit to make sure everybody has been counted in the census. Have you been counted in the census? And the guy was like, We did it already. I said, Then you need to tell other people to be counted. It’s that kind of thing. We all have a role to play in it, and you don’t have to have a role in Fair Count. If you can tell everybody you see to get enrolled in the census, it can make a difference.
The practical instances of sharing with people, and they can go to the Fair Count website to see a checklist and samples of what they can do. There’s a tool kit you can go and put into practice yourself. That’s great. Good.
The only thing I would add, I’ve had so much fun talking to both of you today. We didn’t talk about how the first step toward our recovery from this pandemic is really the census. I just want to stress that. When we do get on the other side of this, we need to make sure we can send kids back to schools that are funded. And we lost two hospitals in the past few months, and we have to make sure there’s an economy and jobs, and the only way to do that is the census. There’s no easier way to start. The road to recovery from COVID is to get counted in the census to make sure the resources come to our communities. They’re very dependent on one another.
We thank y’all so much. We thank you so much for facilitating this and Sean and our friends at The Communications Network. Please visit us at faircount.org and go to my2020census.gov to do your census. It’s safe. Gives you all the power in the world. Please make sure you and everybody are counted.
Well said. I never thought this much about the census, but I think these days we all have to. We need to. So thanks for informing us, educating us, and thanks for all the work you’re doing to make sure we get a Fair Count. Bye, everybody, have a great rest of the conference. Thanks.
Thank you. Thank you. [End of session]
